Powder Measure Swap

[Lowella]

We've acquired a 1981 era Green Machine, but it came to us with an RCBS Uniflo Powder Measure, which the previous owner apparently used manually. We'd like to swap our Uniflo for a proper Little Dandy powder measure, and need to know what other Green Machine hardware we'll need?

Thanks for any information!

[Green_Machiner]

Welcome to the Forum,
Here is a link to the RCBS Green Machine manual. On page 23 there is a schematic of the powder drop system showing what parts are included with the press. If you don't have the required parts, finding replacements will not be easy. RCBS doesn't support the Green Machine anymore and I believe they don't have many (any?) replacement parts available for them. It never hurts to call them and ask. Parts for the Green Machine do show up on eBay occasionally so keep an eye on that.

https://www.rcbs.com/on/demandware.stat ... ACHINE.pdf

[papajim2jordan]

If you want a museum piece, you will probably need to acquire a second or perhaps third machine to get enough original “as issued” parts to complete your project.

If you want a practical reloading tool, forget the LD and get either the Hornady or RCBS case activated die and appropriate PTX. This allows for priming on the machine as well. This works with the Uniflow PM.

The Little Dandy is a big disaster as implemented on the GM, as it WILL dump powder when there is no case in the station, AND produce squib loads to boot.

The case activated accessory also can be angled to clear primer tube, which will replace the original effort which would cause you to learn French the hard way.

IMG_0012.JPG

[papajim2jordan]

I failed to mention that there are at least two and depending on how you view it, three different Little Dandy measure types along with two incompatible versions of powder/expander dies for the GM. Early machines used the more conventional measure threaded inside and outside, attaching to what is essentially a three piece expander die. Later versions sometimes used a non-threaded powder measure body which attached to single piece PTX without need for an adapter. Mixing the two results in incorrect height of the measure assembly for the rotor cam pin holder assembly.

J.B.D.

[Lowella]

J.B.D.,

Thank you very much for your insightful reply. I'll have to take a closer look at the expander/powder drop die on the machine to see if it's already what you've described.

Because our unit came with a Uniflo powder measure, I thought it was wrong, but it may actually be a genuine upgrade.

I'll keep you posted.

Lowella

[papajim2jordan]

There is a concern which overrides all else when reloading. Safety.

The Green Machine is an oddball in homespun ammo manufacturing. Notice that neither Dillon, nor Hornady, nor Lee, nor Redding, or Lyman, make a machine like it. Not even RCBS made a second attempt at the design.

The #1 problem with the machine is it's mechanical complexity. Google Rube Goldberg.

Easiest of the flaws to overcome is priming. Just don't do it. Not on the GM, I mean. If you do, use a tube. Gravity works. The designer of the GM primer feed mechanism was a double agent from an un-named competitor planted there to bring RCBS down.

The priming modification clashes with the next big thing, powder dispensing. The Little Dandy rotor knob is directly in the space the primer magazine tube must occupy. Sawing off the knob is an irreversible error. Save the LD for use elsewhere and put something in it's place that will do the job SAFELY.

Spilling powder is not just a nuisance , it is potentially dangerous. More so on the GM. Not only was the brass case not there for the powder, it was absent also for the primer. Here, directly, vertically in line with each other are primer, loose powder (initiating charge), and a reservoir of highly flammable powder contained in a plastic tube.

As you have the Uniflow in hand, The Case Activated Powder Drop, (Google Midway USA), will remove those issues, and there will be no drawer full of rotors to buy and saw.

This just scratches the surface.

Should you decide to continue with this project, may I suggest, “An Encyclopedia of Swearing”, by Geoffrey Hughes. It will help you over some of the rough spots.

Decades ago, progressive loading tools were something of an oddity. Many designs were tried. Some with ongoing success, others outright failures. The Green Machine is of the latter. Along side of the GM, was an offering by a fellow named Mike Dillon. It was the RL 450. I bought one of those machines along side the GM. The 450 always worked, the GM rarely did.

It appears by your query that you have already run into your first major difficulty with the GM, parts availability. Dillon still makes parts and cal. conversion kits and upgrades for the 450. There are quite a few aftermarket companies which make accessories for the various Dillon machines. RCBS, having been sold and traded so many times, has lost it's way. Perhaps Dillon will buy it and make it good again.

The purpose of a model train set IS the train set. It serves no purpose other than to itself. The purpose of an ammunition reloading tool is to produce a useful product. If your purpose is to tinker and fiddle and fuss, the Green Machine is well suited for that. Should your goal be to spend time at the shooting range and develop a useful skill, J.B.D. (Just Buy Dillon).

These opinions are entirely mine and I own them completely. It is not my intent or desire to undermine the usefulness of this forum. It should be thought of more as a support group than as a vehicle for recruitment.

[GBertolet]

I did the aforementioned things, and added a Lee Disk powder measure, which works great. No more spilled powder, with 4 disks with 24 total cavities, for different charge weights. If you are going to convert to a stick feed, be sure to add a blast shield tube. Starting with a GM for, a new reloader, is not a good thing. Lots of aggrivation in store. But if you have one already, they can be made to run quite well, with a little mechanical aptitude, and a little time.

There is an article on this forum, from the designer of the GM. He laments he overestimated the mechanical aptitude of the typical purchaser, which is one of the main reasons the GM failed. Too many people failed to understand or follow the instructions. Dillon marketing a simpler progressive, was another reason. I have a Dillon press also, but for dedicated 45 acp, loading one load for IPSC, the GM is my prefered loader, over the Dillon.

[Lowella]

The Lee Disk Powder Measure and Actuating Powder Die are temporarily unavailable, though I've asked Lee to notify me when they are available.

Is there any way we could have a phone conversation about the Green Machine? I'm in Millersville, PA at 717-201-3869.

I'm not convinced my last reply from here got to you...

Thanks again for your insights and suggestions.

Lowell Anderson

[papajim2jordan]

I did the aforementioned things, and added a Lee Disk powder measure, which works great. No more spilled powder, with 4 disks with 24 total cavities, for different charge weights. If you are going to convert to a stick feed, be sure to add a blast shield tube. Starting with a GM for, a new reloader, is not a good thing. Lots of aggrivation in store. But if you have one already, they can be made to run quite well, with a little mechanical aptitude, and a little time.

There is an article on this forum, from the designer of the GM. He laments he overestimated the mechanical aptitude of the typical purchaser, which is one of the main reasons the GM failed. Too many people failed to understand or follow the instructions. Dillon marketing a simpler progressive, was another reason. I have a Dillon press also, but for dedicated 45 acp, loading one load for IPSC, the GM is my prefered loader, over the Dillon.

To reiterate the case against priming on the thing, without the adjustment gauge(s), a through understanding of the relationship of all the movable bits and how they affect each other, and how those adjustments WILL change with use, best to not. Wrapping a steel tube around the primer magazine turns it into gun barrel. How will you fix it to the machine? Simply sliding a tube over a tube means more shrapnel should things go sideways. A setscrew into the aluminum tube which will be blown to bits won't do it. The commercial manufacturers of these things have the tech and resources to build and test them safe. You have to decide which part of your anatomy your willing to sacrifice to save a couple of bucks.

[papajim2jordan]

There is a concern which overrides all else when reloading. Safety.

The Green Machine is an oddball in homespun ammo manufacturing. Notice that neither Dillon, nor Hornady, nor Lee, nor Redding, or Lyman, make a machine like it. Not even RCBS made a second attempt at the design.

The #1 problem with the machine is it's mechanical complexity. Google Rube Goldberg.

Easiest of the flaws to overcome is priming. Just don't do it. Not on the GM, I mean. If you do, use a tube. Gravity works. The designer of the GM primer feed mechanism was a double agent from an un-named competitor planted there to bring RCBS down.

The priming modification clashes with the next big thing, powder dispensing. The Little Dandy rotor knob is directly in the space the primer magazine tube must occupy. Sawing off the knob is an irreversible error. Save the LD for use elsewhere and put something in it's place that will do the job SAFELY.

Spilling powder is not just a nuisance , it is potentially dangerous. More so on the GM. Not only was the brass case not there for the powder, it was absent also for the primer. Here, directly, vertically in line with each other are primer, loose powder (initiating charge), and a reservoir of highly flammable powder contained in a plastic tube.

As you have the Uniflow in hand, The Case Activated Powder Drop, (Google Midway USA), will remove those issues, and there will be no drawer full of rotors to buy and saw.

This just scratches the surface.

Should you decide to continue with this project, may I suggest, “An Encyclopedia of Swearing”, by Geoffrey Hughes. It will help you over some of the rough spots.

Decades ago, progressive loading tools were something of an oddity. Many designs were tried. Some with ongoing success, others outright failures. The Green Machine is of the latter. Along side of the GM, was an offering by a fellow named Mike Dillon. It was the RL 450. I bought one of those machines along side the GM. The 450 always worked, the GM rarely did.

It appears by your query that you have already run into your first major difficulty with the GM, parts availability. Dillon still makes parts and cal. conversion kits and upgrades for the 450. There are quite a few aftermarket companies which make accessories for the various Dillon machines. RCBS, having been sold and traded so many times, has lost it's way. Perhaps Dillon will buy it and make it good again.

The purpose of a model train set IS the train set. It serves no purpose other than to itself. The purpose of an ammunition reloading tool is to produce a useful product. If your purpose is to tinker and fiddle and fuss, the Green Machine is well suited for that. Should your goal be to spend time at the shooting range and develop a useful skill, J.B.D. (Just Buy Dillon).

These opinions are entirely mine and I own them completely. It is not my intent or desire to undermine the usefulness of this forum. It should be thought of more as a support group than as a vehicle for recruitment.

Addendum:

I should have omitted from a previous post the suggestion of using a primer tube magazine on the Green Machine. I submit this as a correction to that poorly considered idea.

Consider instead, for a moment, RCBS. A substantial manufacturer of reloading equipment. They employ trained, degreed, experienced engineers to that end.

They invented the Green Machine. No person, or group of persons, knows more about it than they do (or rather, did. That collective body of knowledge has evaporated, most likely, forever).

RCBS certainly had considerable financial investor interest in making the thing a commercial success. It is reasonable to conclude that they would do their best to make it work. They were unsuccessful. I do not for an instant, imagine that I could succeed where RCBS, with all their resources, could not.

Excepting the fine work done by Gomez Addams, re-inventing the model train set will not result in an explosion.

There are far better stories to tell your grandchildren than the tale of how you lost your eye.

J.B.D.